tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.comments2014-08-09T10:45:44.953+01:00For God So Loved The WorldUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-30183998856324094022013-12-08T17:26:05.674+00:002013-12-08T17:26:05.674+00:00Hi,
Thanks for the comment. I haven't been p...Hi,<br /><br />Thanks for the comment. I haven't been posting much recently, due to struggling for time, and not having much of any worth to post, but I'll try and write a little more often in the new year.<br /><br />MariaMLPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10702020695878008545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-22493113850088392732013-12-06T21:11:25.977+00:002013-12-06T21:11:25.977+00:00Dear Maria, I found your blog not too long ago and...Dear Maria, I found your blog not too long ago and have enjoyed reading it. Thank you for sharing your testimony of following Jesus. I hope there will be more posts in the remainder of the year or in 2014. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-3623729711857124832013-04-08T21:09:21.180+01:002013-04-08T21:09:21.180+01:00I'm sad now too. Didn't know this :(I'm sad now too. Didn't know this :(Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-59394889567632466012013-01-28T14:30:50.422+00:002013-01-28T14:30:50.422+00:00Saul had nothing to do with Stephen's dead. H...Saul had nothing to do with Stephen's dead. He was just there. Acts 7:58, "And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul." If anything Stephen's dead had an effect in Saul's future as a killer of Christians. Have a blessed day!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16558127285878226964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-19097218451523370982012-09-07T14:10:42.547+01:002012-09-07T14:10:42.547+01:00Makes me sad too. Praying for him. Makes me sad too. Praying for him. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-73768318406099811572012-08-03T18:44:29.673+01:002012-08-03T18:44:29.673+01:00Yes!! This video and the New Mystics ones I poste...Yes!! This video and the New Mystics ones I posted last month just reinforce in my own mind that I made the right decision in moving from a church that draws heavily from the, ahem, theology?? promoted by Bethel and their companions. <br /><br />Whilst the church change wasn't easy for me, knowing that others (especially much more experienced Christians) have studied these movements and come to the same conclusions - that just helps me to see I made the right decision for myself and my family, however difficult it was/is. For this I am extremely thankful.<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />:)MLPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10702020695878008545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-75501205623542547502012-08-03T15:39:33.130+01:002012-08-03T15:39:33.130+01:00You ever get those moments when you realise that e...You ever get those moments when you realise that everything you researched over the last year or so, and the conclusions you arrived at because of that research, and the changes you had to make that flowed from those things are vindicated and right?<br /><br />It would be wrong for me to gloat- but I have to a little ;)<br /><br />Even so it isn't funny. Their concept of faith "as a substance", and their belief in signs and wonders "power evangelism", and their music, and their lack of theology and grounding in the Word of God all make for very fertile demonic soil. And weak leaders who propagate this rubbish need to be taken to task for not being serious about truth and instead loving "love" as a thing and an end in itself.<br /><br />People are being deceived. And they all clap and smile and dance and close their little deceived eyes.<br /><br />Amazingly the only gift these people never seem to be given is that of discernment ;)Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17026435906120124500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-82538533215061924052012-08-02T21:02:25.572+01:002012-08-02T21:02:25.572+01:00Thanks very much. They shocked me a little. The ...Thanks very much. They shocked me a little. The links between the out-and-out heresy of the new mystics and the increasingly mainstream bethel movement is frightening.<br /><br />Kenosis - I haven't looked much into the theory, but I cannot see anything in scripture that would suggest that Jesus gave up his divinity. Any theory which attempts to change the very nature of God, either The Father, The Son, or The Holy Spirit, in my opinion, is a theory that promotes another God - a false God. Maybe this assessment is too harsh, but I doubt it.<br /><br />My issue with the whole hyper-charismatic movement is that The Holy Spirit is subject to a superficial elevation in stature, whereby He is called upon to perform 'signs and wonders', rather than given His rightful place as dwelling within us, sanctifying us and convicting us of our sins, and as such, denigrating Him.<br /><br />As for the anti-intellectualism and holding to no creeds - The Bible - God's Word to us - tells us the Bereans were commended for 'searching the scriptures daily' (Acts 17:11). Who are we to be arrogant enough to think we don't need to, and the 'proof' of our theology can be based upon our own experiences alone, discounting scripture and the collective church history? Experiences can be counterfeited and feelings lie!<br /><br />I'm unfortunately not so surprised by the amount of Christians that fall for this rubbish. Someone once told me 'that which you are won with, you are won to' ;) And if it's the showmanship of a a charismaniac circus, instead of the Gospel, then that's what you'll chase, and the circus-masters give their public what they want!<br /><br />:)MLPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10702020695878008545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-47490666152385513392012-08-01T16:41:02.920+01:002012-08-01T16:41:02.920+01:00Great videos! You know, it comes as absolutely no ...Great videos! You know, it comes as absolutely no surprise whatever to me that a movement that is anti-intellectual, denies the full deity of Christ (a false kenosis), elevates experience above the Word, and holds to no creeds slips into the abyss that is error.<br /><br />What IS surprising to me are the amount of Christians suckered into this movement with punchy quotes, weak signs, and promises of glory and health and wealth.<br /><br />Meh.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17026435906120124500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-62150011281761056872012-06-29T17:52:16.254+01:002012-06-29T17:52:16.254+01:00Haha, great book! Second only to the Bible, I'...Haha, great book! Second only to the Bible, I'd say it's probably the most important and influential book I've read this year! Enjoy :)MLPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10702020695878008545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-75338393990578302232012-06-29T17:28:51.581+01:002012-06-29T17:28:51.581+01:00That's it- I have just ordered the "Chari...That's it- I have just ordered the "Charismatic Chaos" book. For £4 it's a steal, and after recommending it to people for so long I thought I should actually read it myself :DPaulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17026435906120124500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-11643842785732771912012-06-24T18:24:00.958+01:002012-06-24T18:24:00.958+01:00Exactly! Didn't he go and proclaim the Gospel...Exactly! Didn't he go and proclaim the Gospel and build up the church instead? ;)MLPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10702020695878008545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-11176789636106853362012-06-24T17:43:39.675+01:002012-06-24T17:43:39.675+01:00Yeah- interestingly the Apostle Paul probably had ...Yeah- interestingly the Apostle Paul probably had some kind of "near death experience" and didn't think it worth speaking of. If he had only thought, he could have sold millions of books and earned his way into history a different way! These guys crack me up :/Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17026435906120124500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-53828715854974712592012-06-14T15:57:12.073+01:002012-06-14T15:57:12.073+01:00Hi, thanks for the comment.
I'd agree - we ar...Hi, thanks for the comment.<br /><br />I'd agree - we are incapable of seeking God of our own accord, or as the article puts it - 'And if you want to get super-technical on theology, the Bible is clear that no one is a seeker. It is God who is seeking us. Bam!' There's a comment on there that I like - 'It’s pride to think we sought out God and found Him. We never would have looked if He hadn’t put that desire to know Him in our heart', which I think sums things up quite well. <br /><br />I've heard a lot of statements from people who talk about 'winning souls for Christ', and they very often look to quantitative measures to judge their success. Fine, but how successful are they really? So they got x number of new visitors in the door, or y number of people to say a prayer, but how many of them are genuine followers? Back many years ago, I used to go out drinking in clubs in the area I grew up in. There were a few 'youth-orientated' church groups in that area that used to evangelise to people rolling out of the pubs and clubs in the early hours of Sunday morning. Some of my friends back then were met by these people, and some of them probably even responded in the affirmative to them. But none of them are actually Christian. Knowing my old friends, they probably just said whatever they thought would get them away quicker!<br /><br />I'm not saying that evangalism is wrong - far from it. The Bible is clear that we are to go and make disciples. I just don't see how getting someone to say something they probably don't mean can be called a success. I'm trying to fit together in my own mind how the command to share the Gospel to all and God seeking the elect works, but I'd say that God knows who He has chosen, and we don't. We just share the Gospel and those who are chosen to respond do, those who aren't chosen don't. The emphasis there is on the Gospel, not signs, wonders and gimmicks. Personally, I don't see the point of getting up early on a Sunday just to sit through some entertainment show. I can do that from home with the TV. It's the Gospel that saves, not clever marketing. My own limited church experience has unfortunately demonstrated that people love the gimmicks, and I find this very saddening. <br /><br />As for being embarrassed - the site linked to highights what I hope is the more extreme displays in churches. I don't come from a church background, and my family don't understand my faith at all. If they were to see some of this stuff, in particular the heretical new mystics content, they'd probably try and have me sectioned! All I can do there though is share the gospel with them, and if God so chooses, they will respond.<br /><br />Maria :)MLPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10702020695878008545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-88959186580399175452012-06-14T10:14:01.175+01:002012-06-14T10:14:01.175+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17026435906120124500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-90614770213265010752012-05-31T21:25:06.840+01:002012-05-31T21:25:06.840+01:00No rambling - just some very helpful thinking poin...No rambling - just some very helpful thinking points. Thank you very much! :)MLPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10702020695878008545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-84787180477988726052012-05-31T16:42:26.536+01:002012-05-31T16:42:26.536+01:00Yeah- "sanctification" is not something ...Yeah- "sanctification" is not something we can have in the now (fully), but something that is developed for the rest of our lives. We used to sing a song in the Salvation Army: "To be like Jesus, this hope possesses me..." I think that should summarise the desire of all Christians, tempered with the realisation that the complete end of sanctification will be "then" and not "now". And sanctification is tough. And painful. And not without struggle.<br /><br />I think if I were a cessationist who attended a pentecostal Church where their core tenet around the doctrine of the Holy Spirit were that they believed a full and powerful Spirit-led life could only be found within the experience of a baptism of the Spirit, and a manifestation of the sign gifts, I would leave. <br /><br />If I were a continuationist and held the same position in a cessationist Church fellowship, I would also leave.<br /><br />I think the doctrine of the Holy Spirit is so central that it must be a "core belief", not something that is discussed or held in an "open hand". He is, after all, God.<br /><br />Do not confuse sanctification with the baptism of the Spirit or baptism *in* the Spirit), since they are two very different things. So evidence of sanctification is a continually changing direction away from the world and towards God- a mortification of sin in our lives as we become more like Christ. Spirit baptism (filling of the Spirit) leads to empowered living and witness and a greater awareness at the first of God's presence in our lives (but even that- "feeling God's presence" can become a crutch that we rely upon so that if we don't "feel His presence" we tend to think He isn't with us and so on).<br /><br />Anyway. Enough rambling :)Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17026435906120124500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-45443337374196596852012-05-31T15:54:16.886+01:002012-05-31T15:54:16.886+01:00Hi, thanks for the comment.
Just a cursory readin...Hi, thanks for the comment.<br /><br />Just a cursory reading around the issue has led me to realise that this isn't an issue I can conclude on over night, especially with my limited knowledge and experience as a Christian. I'd also realised that I need to get a grip on the correct definition of the terms used. As such, I've ordered John MacArthur's book 'Charismatic Chaos' in order to help me understand the doctrinal stances of both groups, and I'm hoping to find good, knowledgeable, experienced Christians I can talk with to discuss their stances, from both viewpoints, and find worthwhile resources in order to aid my learning. Any book or resource suggestions would be gratefully received!<br /><br />What I'm most wary of is ensuring that I neither turn the issue into a purely academic exercise, or draw conclusions based upon emotions - either path would be very easy for me to take, but could be very bad.<br /><br />It is the 'sign gifts' that I'm most interested in thinking about, such as healing, talking in tongues etc, as well as 'Baptism in the spirit'. This 'baptism in the spirit' or 'an experience with the Holy Spirit' is something I hear a lot about from people at my church, but I can't say it's something I've experienced - at least not in the way they describe it. I can say I've seen evidence of sanctification in my own life - although it seems to be a very slow, often frustrating process (albeit with one fairly major issue finally put to rest quite recently - which I hope allows me to draw closer to God). <br /><br />For what concluding on cessationism means - I'm not sure. If I do conclude that the sign gifts have ceased, I wil have to carefully consider whether I can remain an attendee at my church, or find another one. I believe that for the most part the congregation are people who love God, but if I were to remain whilst holding a cessationist view, would I grow disdainful towards them? That wouldn't be good for me or them - in fact I'd worry it would even be insulting to them. That wouldn't be an easy decision to make because they are great people, and have been an enormous support to me (and my daughter) over the past year. I realise that no church is going to be made up solely of people who agree with me on everything, but I'll need to consider whether this is an issue I can agree to disagree with them on, or whether it would be time to make a change.<br /><br />If I conclude on continuationism, I'll need to examine why I don't experience these sign gifts. From some very basic research it seems to me that there are two different viewpoints within continuationism - those who hold that the gifts (or more explictly, the sign gifts) still exist and are commonly used today, but not neccessarily all are gifed in this way, and those who belief that the sign gifts are there for all believers, and if a believer doesn't have them, it's because there is something (sin, usually) is holding them back. <br /><br />Thanks again for the comment :)MLPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10702020695878008545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-74444643284709304232012-05-31T08:12:13.865+01:002012-05-31T08:12:13.865+01:00Just make sure that you fix in your mind the langu...Just make sure that you fix in your mind the language of the debate: charismatic describes the gifts in their totality; "sign gifts" are the best description of those gifts that are overtly "miraculous" in nature (so tongues, word of wisdom, healing etc). The ministry gifts (pastor, evangelist etc) are still charismatic since given by the Holy Spirit. The best word to describe those who hold to a continuationist position is "Pentecostal".<br /><br />The same for "baptism in the Spirit"- Torrey was big on using this term to describe what he thought was a second- and distinct- experience of the Holy Spirit. The Wesleys, Finney and so on all held to the same thing. The Salvation Army believe this second work of grace is full sanctification which comes (normally) after what they call a "crisis point". I prefer Biblical language here though- "filling of the Spirit". This comes from Paul's plea for us to be "(continuously) filled with the Spirit".<br /><br />What Pentecostalism has done is not only refocused the language of the Scriptures but also offered new ideas as to what the experience of the Spirit offers the believer. Believing that Acts 2 is a precedent for all believers (and there is little evidence for this) they take the language of that chapter and hold to being both filled with the Spirit and being "baptised" in the Spirit. In fact third wave teachers now hold that this is more an "anointing" than a baptism.<br /><br />This refocus on language and experience is sometimes helpful, because many cessationists have experienced a second "direct work of God" in their lives. Myself included. I have called this at various times "baptism", "sanctification", and even "filling"; back of it all is the need and the actual experience of God in a fresh way. Whether this is followed (and necessarily is followed by) sign gifts is something you will have to decide for yourself. But since nobody ever learns theology in a vacuum (the adage of sitting down with your Bible by yourself and popping up with theological truths that the Church has taken a long time to foster and define is simply silly), you should also consult books and real people and their experiences. And of course you should pray directly and ask God if He wants to gift you in any of the ways that your Church believes He can and does bless people.<br /><br />This leads to the final point: if you conclude on cessationism, what will this mean?<br /><br />If you conclude on continuationism, what does this mean?Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17026435906120124500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-59557363177292872722012-05-12T19:56:38.959+01:002012-05-12T19:56:38.959+01:00So I might be over-simplifying here, but the only ...So I might be over-simplifying here, but the only humans to ever exist with total true free will were Adam and Eve? Because of their rebellion, sin entered the world (along with death and disease), and every person was tainted and influenced (to a greater or lesser degree) by sin? But the capacity to do good, and even the desire to do so - whether we acknowledge it or not - is because we are made in the image of God, who is good?<br /><br />I've just finished the Hitchens / Wilson book. Very interesting. I didn't know that Hitchens was baptised. Here's a quick question then, if you don't mind. Hitchens went through with a baptism. Assuming that at the time he was sincere about his faith, and something happened that made him either drift away from his faith or more likely some event caused him to react angrily to the idea of a God, would he still be saved? The fifth point of calvinism (Perseverance of the Saints) would indicate he would be, but I may well be interpreting this incorrectly.<br /><br />Thanks for the comments - I've learnt a lot from this comment thread. <br /><br />:)MLPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10702020695878008545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-15283785688752053622012-05-12T18:05:50.157+01:002012-05-12T18:05:50.157+01:00Yep - it takes a lot to wind me up ;) but this di...Yep - it takes a lot to wind me up ;) but this did!<br /><br />I have no problem with technology being used as a tool for delivering the Word of God - as long as that's what it's used for. This is just a gimmick to grab peoples attention, get them in for a service, then proudly announce how many 'new christians' they scored that week.<br /><br />Do yourself a favour though - don't read the comments underneath the article. The top one especially ;)MLPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10702020695878008545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-69664015581546612952012-05-12T16:40:23.496+01:002012-05-12T16:40:23.496+01:00Oh this seriously winds me up!!! It is an "un...Oh this seriously winds me up!!! It is an "undeniably spiritual experience." Well I am denying it- so obviously it isn't undeniable ;) A PS3 in a Church meeting- to achieve what the Word of God cannot? What expository preaching has never done? What the Holy Spirit taking of His Word and applying it to our hearts cannot achieve? Puleeease!!!! <br /><br />Sad.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17026435906120124500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-20818873858158571922012-05-12T10:30:15.375+01:002012-05-12T10:30:15.375+01:00No problem :)
By the way- it's worth noting t...No problem :)<br /><br />By the way- it's worth noting that I actually answered Hitchens himself on the reason why atheists can make "good moral choices" just like "those Christians". The reason (as I put it) is that we are all created imago-dei (in the image of God)- which has more to do with things like love, truth, goodness, kindness and so on than it does an actual "imago" in the physical sense (the Greek there would be 'morphe'). In other words, every human has been created (because of our first parents Adam and Eve) with the *capacity* to do good; the issue is that when sin entered the world that capacity was hindered. Adam and Eve could make a real moral choice (therefore had true "free will") because at that point they were without sin!<br /><br />Our choices (even though we are imago-dei) are never "good"- else the Bible wouldn't say that "there are none good, no not one" and we wouldn't need a "new nature". So atheists can make what we would call "good moral choices" and perform good "moral actions" like Christians or muslims or even buddhists- it's just that those acts in the sight of God aren't good :)<br /><br />'Proto-evangelion' -always loved that one :DPaulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17026435906120124500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-90895174047288147842012-05-11T21:25:50.303+01:002012-05-11T21:25:50.303+01:00Would you believe me if I said I had already typed...Would you believe me if I said I had already typed up a response, then pressed the wrong key and the whole thing disappeared? ;)<br /><br />Yes, on reflection Hitchens doesn't seem to be denying the 'historical Jesus', but rather the 'Christ of miracles'. Hitchens would say I'm biased here, but if Jesus was just another figure who angered the Romans and was executed, then there would be little reference to Jesus in secular history as His crucifiction would have been of little significance. For me, Jesus's resurrection is the event that delivers the 'Good News' - in the 'Is Christianity Good for the World book Hitchens does indeed deny the resurrection. Again, if Jesus wasn't resurrected, from what I've studied, I'd say that the whole 'Jesus Myth' could / would have been quashed fairly quickly by the Romans and the Jewish leaders. <br /><br />The creation ex nihilo argument is one of my favourites ;)<br /><br />As to why Hitchens didn't come to the right conclusion - that's a true calvinist response there! I'm still on the fence regarding election, although I can see great scriptural evidence for it. In the recent past I'd sort of attributed a non-theists reason for not accepting God as being pride. I'd even fostered a kind of pride in not being too proud to accept the gospel - a bit of a paradox there. <br /><br />Isaiah - the evangelicals favourite! I haven't read Isaiah in it's entirety yet - I'm still only working through 1 Kings. But Matt Chandler makes reference to it in his latest book - Isaiah 6:9 specifically. So Isaiah was called to preach to a group of people who would never accept the gospel? I honestly don't think I'd be too happy to get that calling! I think people like to measure success in quantifiable ways, including 'converts'. Interestingly, Chandler also speaks of how the gospel forces a response - either a hardening of the heart towards God, or hopefully an acceptance of the Word of God - this is something I've definitely observed. And of course God does harden hearts for his glory - the obvious example would be Exodus 9:12, but I'm sure there are other examples.<br /><br />Hitchens comment in 1:19 is certainly wrong. I don't know why God gave us that choice. I accept that there's many, many things I won't get answers to this side of death, and maybe after they just won't matter! Total depravity is something I'm wrestling with though. I'm struggling to see how people, especially non-believers, can make choices that we would consider moral or good. If pushed, I'd say it was God working through the person - believer or not, as all that is good is from God. And I can see how all our 'good works' are tainted, hence why we can never earn our way to salvation. <br /><br />The term 'proto-evangelion' is a new one for me. I looked it up and yes I'd seen how Genesis 3:15 was a proto-evangelion - I just didn't know the term for it, so thank you! For every new piece of information I learn, I realise there's another 100 things I don't know!<br /><br />Thanks very much :)MLPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10702020695878008545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3111143489827255011.post-7468267927454332522012-05-11T08:10:09.188+01:002012-05-11T08:10:09.188+01:00I don't think Hitchens denied the "histor...I don't think Hitchens denied the "historical Jesus" but demanded instead that the "Christ of miracles" was a myth (probably more to do with his scientific worldview that apparently denies the miraculous whilst endorsing the big bang "from nothing" ;) Bultmann and other "theologians" from the late 18th and early 19th centuries helped reinforce this view by dividing the "Jesus of history" from the "Jesus of myth", and this came at a time when Darwin and Lyell were pushing their theories and they were gaining notoriety, influencing even the Church that before then had held to a relatively young earth theory.<br /><br />Why did Hitchens not see the same evidence we do and come to the same (saving) conclusion? Hard though it may be to understand I believe it is because God didn't grant him repentance and faith (both are gifts). So although he understood what he spoke of (to a degree) it served to harden his heart. Interestingly this was Isaiah's whole ministry- speak to people and therefore harden their hearts!! We always see Isaiah's call as something to relate to and a declaration to preach the gospel etc., but if you read further it was to have the opposite effect on people (would we be so quick to say "here am I" after realising that?).<br /><br />As to his reference in 1:19- I would have to say he got it wrong there. The Bible never speaks about God having created us in "such a form as to demand we rebel". He knew we would fall (I don't understand this but have to accept it given His attributes), and placed Adam and Eve exactly where they would be required to make a choice. So although He knew what would happen that did not negate their free choice. In that way we have the same "free will" (although being totally depraved we rarely if ever choose the truly good and don't- of ourselves- have the capacity to respond to God in faith). Adam and Eve had perfect free will- had they wished they had the capacity to choose the good. They didn't. And so sin entered the world and death through sin. We don't have perfect free will and so lack the capacity (Morally and essentially) to do anything without it being tainted by sin...<br /><br />The Apostle Paul reminds those of us who would question on this basis "why did you make me this way?" with the response, "who are you to question God?"<br /><br />So God didn't "demand we rebel"- He knew it was going to happen. Even so He created and blessed with the garden and provided a sacrifice (proto-evangelion) as a picture of who was to come and what would be required to annul such rebellion in man's heart.<br /><br />It's more complex than all of that but I'm lecturing already :P<br /><br />:)Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17026435906120124500noreply@blogger.com